Dissecting the Leadership Style of Penn State's James Franklin: A Deep Dive into Values, Vision, and Victories

Franklin's Leadership in Penn State Football

Nate Prosser 0:04

All right , welcome back to Leadership Chalk Talk . Thanks for tuning into this extra special episode . Football is in the air . People , I feel like this has been the longest off-season of my life . I have never been more excited for Penn State football . I'm also a little excited for Steelers football , but we'll save that for another pod .

Nate Prosser 0:26

I've got a couple special guests coming up today to talk James Franklin and Penn State football . Before we dive into that , let's hear from the man himself . Let's hear from James Franklin . All right , I am 100% bought in Awesome to hear James Franklin kick us off . I'm really excited to talk about his leadership and what he brings to Penn State football Before we dive in three ground roles attitude of gratitude , learn don't burn .

Nate Prosser 1:29

And actions , not jacksons . So we're gonna learn from the things that James does well and , of course , offer some critique and things that he could do better . From a leadership front , we're gonna go through five segments today , five core leadership topics and five things that he does that we're gonna talk about . We'll round that out with some good Penn State talk too . So for the fellow Nittany Lion fans out there , I think you're gonna love this one Joining me today for this awesome discussion . I want to welcome back my good friend , zach from the Joe Paterno podcast , where we broke down Joe Paterno's leadership and thought it would be awesome to bring him back full circle to talk about James Franklin . So , zach , welcome back man .

Zac Phillips 2:09

Awesome to be back . I'm as excited as you are , so it's gonna be a great season and a great podcast .

Nate Prosser 2:16

Absolutely , and joining us for our three man weave , we got the tailgate king himself , our great friend Andrew Andrew Kennedy . Andrew , welcome to the podcast man , thanks for having me guys .

Andrew Kennedy 2:28

Always a good day to talk Penn State football .

Nate Prosser 2:30

Yes , sir , all right . So to get this going , we're gonna jump right in . We're gonna start off with James Franklin and his background as a Penn State football coach and as a football coach . So , zach , can you give us a little bit of a primer of Franklin's career as a coach ?

Zac Phillips 2:48

Yeah , so going way back , Franklin is from Pennsylvania . So he kind of famously said when he was hired he's a Pennsylvania boy with a Penn State heart , Went to East Straussburg , played quarterback there .

Zac Phillips 3:00

So East Straussburg's a little Division II school in Pennsylvania . Various position coaching wide receiver , defensive back , quarterback coaching roles . Throughout his first few years in the coaching ranks Became the offensive coordinator and associate head coach at Maryland and then left there for his first head coaching job , which was at Vanderbilt University , which is in the SEC private school in Nashville . He was only the third African-American coach in the SEC . He was the first black coach of any sport at Vanderbilt and in his three years at Vanderbilt they went to three bowl games . The last two years he went nine and four in each of those years and for those of you who might not be super familiar with Vanderbilt football , it's not a traditional powerhouse by any means . It's a great academic school . It's on the level of a Duke or a Stanford or a Northwestern and typically the football results have matched as well . So three bowls in three years was almost an unfathomably impressive run at Vanderbilt .

Zac Phillips 4:15

So coming out of that 2013 season Penn State we had previously gone through the Jerry St Dusky scandal which we talked about on the Joe Pod . Bill O'Brien was our coach for two years and then after the 2013 season he left to go to the NFL . So we needed a new head coach and we did the due diligence on James Franklin and hired him starting in the 2014 season . So first two seasons a little rough seven and six , but again we're still coming off some of the sanctions related to the Sandusky era . 2016 was really the breakthrough year . So went 11 and three that year , had an upset in the whiteout over number two Ohio State , which is kind of the signature win of Frank's career up to that point . Lost in the Rose Bowl but was an incredible game .

Zac Phillips 5:09

2017 , expectations super high . Went 11 and two that year and went to the Fiesta Bowl , which is another prestigious year , our prestigious Bowl A couple years after that . Decent results but never really getting over the hump , and that's kind of a theme we saw not only in 2018 and 2019 , but kind of in 2022 as well , and that's something I'm sure we'll come back to . Built a really strong program , but sometimes it seems like we're kind of one tier below the Ohio States and Michigan's of the world who we play every year and have historically not done tremendously well against . So you know , that's that's where I pass it off to Andrew . Kind of be interested to get his perspective . You know , from a numbers perspective , james has had a great run at Penn State , but how would you rate the success of what he's done so far ?

Andrew Kennedy 6:05

I think it's been a very successful 10 year at Penn State . If I were to tell you that he's had four 11 win seasons , how would you guys react to that ?

Zac Phillips 6:17

I think that's pretty impressive .

Andrew Kennedy 6:19

So four out of nine . But but when you dig deeper , really the first two years no one's going to count . He was coming off of unprecedented sanctions from the paternal scandal , and then also 2020 , he had to face COVID . The season was supposed to start in September . They canceled it . They restarted in October , so we take those three years off of his record . In the six let's say normal coaching years he's had , four of them have gone for 11 wins . That's a resounding success . In my book .

Nate Prosser 6:53

Fair to say , you're also ready for more and to take the next step .

Andrew Kennedy 6:58

Yeah , I'm not . I know we're going to get into that later in the pod . There's definitely more steps to be taken . The question really is can our program take them ? And there's multiple reasons why they can or can't . But I think we're going to get into that later in the pod .

Nate Prosser 7:13

Good stuff , all right . So , zach , thanks for thanks for the background , andrew , thanks for the context of again thinking about where the program was . With the sanctions coming off of Bill O'Brien and then going to the NFL Would we even be able to get a high quality coach at that point was a question and to be where the program is now , andrew , as Andrew said , a resounding success , also ready to take the next step , and what we want to do here is dive into some of the leadership skills , capabilities and behaviors that Franklin has demonstrated and continues to demonstrate to see what we can learn from that . We're going to do , as I said , five segments . Segment number one is going to be about core values . Franklin talks a lot about core values in the program , so let's play a clip of him breaking that down in a team meeting of what the four core values are at Penn State .

Clip of James Fanklin 8:05

Let's go through these core values . We spend way too much time spending energy on focusing on things outside of our control . You can control every single one of these . You're going to wake up every single morning with a great attitude , just that approach , waking up and being appreciative and positive . You're going to maximize the day . Work ethic that's something that you can control . You can outwork everyone , starting at your position , that on the defense , that on a team , that in the conference , that in the country , compete on the practice field , compete in the weight room , compete in the classroom , compete in everything you do . Most of you guys thrive in competitive situations . Iron sharpens iron . It's the best opportunity for you to maximize your potential and give you the best chance to have an impact on this team and then sacrifice . It's being willing to make the right decision moment after moment , and typically the tough decision , because you're willing to sacrifice small things now for big things later . All these things are not football , they're life . They parallel each other . It is all the details and everything matters .

Nate Prosser 9:20

All right , so he goes through the core values , ends there with everything matters .

Core Values in Business and Sports

Nate Prosser 9:27

Andrew Zach , do you want to talk a little bit about ways you see those core values show up within the Penn State program ? We'll start with the program first , then we'll talk a little bit about business .

Zac Phillips 9:36

Yeah , I'll hit him first . We'll go in the order that he laid him out . So the first one , positive attitude . I think there's a lot of ways that you know , I kind of correlate positive attitude with fun , and certainly there's a number of ways that he goes about making everything fun . You know , for some of your listeners who might not even be that familiar with Penn State , might be familiar with Chad Powers , who Eli Manning famously played a walk on Key , and Michael Key has impersonated James Franklin before . Just a few of the ways that he keeps the fun in there and brings a really fun attitude to the program . And then there's also kind of bringing that positive attitude in situations that are a lot harder .

Zac Phillips 10:25

One that stands out to me is we lost a really tough game to Michigan State in 2017 . And one of our players was running off the field after the game and wasn't going to say anything to Michigan State . He was just kind of going back to the locker room , as you see a lot of athletes do , and Franklin sprinted like 50 yards after him to get him to come back and shake hands and do that positive thing and reinforce that in a time that wasn't probably the most fun for anyone there . So you really see kind of that positivity imbued in the whole whole program .

Zac Phillips 11:03

The second one , one being worth work ethic . There are numerous examples of one thing he he stresses over and over is that the players are going to go to class and when they go to class they have to sit in the front row and a lot of times you'll see players tweeting on their social media at eight in the morning pictures of them sitting in the front row of a class to show that they're there and it's really good to see that work ethic . There's a lot of obvious ways that the work ethic goes into the athletics and the football part of the program , but seeing that he translates that outside of football as well really reinforces that it is a core value of the program and him as a whole , as opposed to just the football coach or the football aspect of it .

Andrew Kennedy 11:52

And I think that allows him to get buy-in from his players and that goes directly towards another core value , which is sacrifice . He actually brings the team in on Sundays , you know , the day after the game . I've never heard of any football team practicing the day after the brutal 3-1.5-hour , 4-hour college football game . They go over every positive , every negative play and they flush it down and then they start the week new on a Monday . But getting these college kids to sacrifice their one day off to come in and practice to me shows the teams buying into that core value .

Andrew Kennedy 12:28

And then the last one is compete . Compete in everything you do . You know , one of the things they do this in the weight room is they list all the lifting records by position for each lift . So you're not just going in there getting through your workout , getting through the end of the day , you're competing not only against your teammates but your previous teammates , because you want to set that record within your position group . And then I'll go down the small stuff . I mean watch a game , even if they have a touch back , no one's lolly-gagging off the field on kick coverage . They race down the field and the first one across the goal line wins . So the biggest things , like the weight room , and the smallest things like kickoff coverage , they're competing at every second in this program .

Zac Phillips 13:09

One more thing on the compete and the competition side of it . You know , as we're sitting here , we've been talking about the season back and forth and we're all talking about Drew Aller , who's our superstar quarterback , who we all assume is going to be the starter . You know , as we sit here recording this , he actually hasn't been named the starter yet because James Franklin is very adamant that there is a competition going on in the quarterback room for who's going to be the starter . So , whether or not we believe that or whether that's just kind of coach speak , it does go to reinforce that particular value and how he treats every position battle , even the most important one .

Nate Prosser 13:46

Yeah , thanks , guys . I think that was an awesome illustration of how the core values come to life . So I want to now turn this to business and our profession . So I'll share a little bit personally and then you guys are welcome to share . You know what feels fair to you as well . I've shared on this podcast .

Nate Prosser 14:03

I work for Wawa . The culture of Wawa is incredible and has been written about and studied in a lot of different ways . One of the really cool things is there's six core values at Wawa . I'm not going to rattle them all off . You can go on Wawacom and look at them . They're posted , explains why they're important . But what is so powerful , both in the example of Penn State and for me at Wawa , is they aren't just words on a wall that aren't talked about , that aren't explained , that aren't used for decision making . They are embedded in everything . So when memos come out and big decisions are made , the values are referenced of . We made this decision because of the value .

Nate Prosser 14:43

I've been in meetings where a decision is about to be made and someone will stop and say , hey , are we valuing people ? Value people is one of the six core values at Wawa , so it is a gut check . It is a North Star , if you will . That can guide all decisions and it can also help explain things to your team , to the organization , of why you are taking certain actions , because they align to the values that we care about . And when employees see that level of consistency and they understand the why , right , it's easy for a coach to say , hey , like run through the kickoff coverage . It's a lot easier to say run through the kickoff coverage because we compete in everything that we do . That's how we win at Penn State . We compete in everything . So you're attaching this constant why to the actions which can enable people to , one , accept things and then , two , to give maximum effort and to have maximum buy in . And also , from a business perspective , it often leads to retention , right , because people understand the why that things are being asked of them , so they feel more committed to the organization , because the consistency is reinforced in their brain and they feel better about what's being placed in front of them .

Nate Prosser 15:54

So wanted to really call out the importance of that . Now , if your organization doesn't have core organizational values , you can take that a step within your team . You can create core values within your team and say , hey , these are the three , four , five , six things that we're going to care about as a small unit , and here's how we're going to talk about that definite called action for listeners . If you don't have core values in your organization , think about how you can pull them into your team . If you do have them , think about ways that you can reference them more and use them for decision making . Before we move on to our next topic , zach Andrew , anything you want to share about kind of your experience in current employer or past employer about core values .

Andrew Kennedy 16:35

Yeah , my corporate story is a little bit like yours , nate . We didn't always have core values where I work , but they were brought into play about the time I joined the company . So a little backstory a year prior to me joining my company , we lost our founder CEO , chairman of the board , in a tragic accident and the company was lost . We were privately owned and we didn't have a lot of direction . He was our unofficial mascot . He was the life and the character of our company . So our CEO at the time and our board of directors got together and they created seven core values for our work and it has been the beacon of our company ever since .

Core Values and the 1-0 Philosophy

Andrew Kennedy 17:16

To your point , when we're making big corporate decisions , we look to those values as a guiding light . And the thing that sticks with me our CEO said at the time when he rolled him out is you know , the leadership of our company could change , our employees could change , our business model can change , but our core values are never going to change . And I think that is something that has just stuck with me , you know , personally and professionally , and also allows me to connect with someone like Franklin , I think . I see I had a high with him on some of these topics and it just resonates and he talks about . You know , you can ask more of people when you set a certain bar and can explain to them why you need them to do this .

Zac Phillips 17:58

Yeah , I would say from my perspective I haven't necessarily worked at a lot of places that had explicit core values . But not having those explicit core values in a sense allows core values to kind of take root and become organizational kind of trademarks and they might not necessarily be the core values you want to take root . And part of that too is , I think , how people up and down the organization treat those values . So just kind of thinking through some jobs I've had and thinking of them through the prism of James Franklin's core values you know sacrifice and work ethic . I've worked at places where those weren't explicit core values but they were very much expected for people . But at the same time you saw management or other people not following those core values and I think that can really lead to a deep motivational spiral when you see that type of thing . Even if you don't have core values , people know what is expected and if they don't see everyone upholding those values it really can be a blow to the organization . I think .

Nate Prosser 19:16

Yeah , there are . I'm glad you brought that up , zach . So having stated values or stated expectations and then not following them is the worst thing , right ? So there are famous stories of companies that have a core value of integrity and then are , you know , under investigation for crime . So , like , what do those words really mean ? Do they really guide the actions and behaviors of the people underneath them ?

Nate Prosser 19:43

So it is paramount that leaders , especially senior leaders , uphold those values and live through them day to day . So , for example , if Franklin was not making sacrifice , if Franklin was not competitive , those things are going to turn into just lip service , right , that people are going to resent and not buy into . So , for the leaders out there , it's so important that you personally buy into the core values , you live by them , that you use them in your decision making , and I would say , if you don't feel like you can act them out , you're probably not in the right place , right , and you probably need to rethink and find a place that's going to match your personal values to the company's values . Alright , so I'm going to pivot us to our second segment here , and this is something that Franklin talks a lot about , which is the we'll call it one and oh , philosophy , we need to go one , and oh . So , andrew , can I ask you to just give a little bit of history of Franklin's Twitter account around ? One and oh , and kind of what that's gone through .

Andrew Kennedy 20:44

Yeah , so it actually started out as he would tweet out at the beginning of week his opponent's name , so Indiana , indiana , indiana 75 times in an effort to get his team to focus on that game . His philosophy was each game is the Super Bowl and we need to treat it that way , whether we're playing Akron and the running joke is or Pitt .

Singular Focus and Micro Goals in Sports and Business

Andrew Kennedy 21:09

So they wanted to make sure the team's getting up for every game , and that's tough right . I mean , look at Penn State schedule this year . They're playing Delaware , which no slouch to them , but they're a Division 1AA , or FCS Division as they call it , and then they're playing Ohio State , which is ranked second in the country .

Andrew Kennedy 21:27

How do you ensure you're getting up for that game and giving it as much attention of it ? So this is the part of his philosophy to ensure his players are giving it enough attention . He has since positioned it from Indiana , indiana , indiana to one and oh , he felt like he was giving his opponents some Bolton board material . So he's moved to that to make it less opponent specific . But it's something I believe in . I think we'll talk about it after the clip here that I think it's something I believe in as a core business model as well .

Nate Prosser 22:01

Yeah , perfect , I love it we're going from . What we talked about is like macro level expectations . So these are the core values that guide everything to really targeted kind of micro goals or priorities . This is the top focus for this week . So it's usually a little easier in a football sense because you have a singular opponent . In a business sense , it's also important to help your team to understand what is most pressing , what is most important .

Nate Prosser 22:27

So some of the agile methodology ways of working where you're sprinting and looking at things , and one and two week increments so that you are focused on the most important thing and you have other stuff in the backlog and you are constantly prioritizing and reprioritizing , as a really powerful way to get your entire team rowing in the same direction , as Franklin tries to do with his football team , and also to be working on the things that are going to have the highest impact and highest net value to your customers . His philosophy of bring this to life , of this is the singular top priority . Even though Ohio State is looming , we are only focused on Delaware . Whoever this week's opponent is is how he gets that level of prioritization . So let me play a clip summarizing what Andrew described of him talking about his one . And oh , philosophy .

Clip of James Fanklin 23:19

It really the message hasn't changed . So in the past I would say Wisconsin 75 times and then Ball State 75 times , because the message was about our entire focus needs to be on this game , this opponent , and being one and oh . So it's more just about . I don't want other people misinterpreting what we're , what we're talking about , but again , no matter what you do , people are going to find ways to complain . Now they say always already saying they're one and oh , last week , and I wasn't nail that that wasn't the message . Obviously I think as the season goes on it makes a little bit more sense to people . But I'm just trying to find ways to be as concise and as clear with our message , most importantly for our players , our program and our fans .

Nate Prosser 24:10

Alright , zach . Hopefully listeners got the message . Singular focus priority again , using like one and two weeks sprints is a really powerful way to do that . Before we move on from this topic , andrew alluded to this of the running joke about Pitt . Can you tell us a little bit about that , how you felt about his comments following a pick game ?

Zac Phillips 24:29

in 2017 . So actually to take a step back before that , 2016 . We played Pitt in the first game of a four game series and they beat us and you know that was kind of their Super Bowl understandably were a big rival of theirs in their minds . And in 2017 , we beat them at our place and at the press conference afterwards we had played Akron the week before that pit game and during the press conference he made a comment . He said you know , we're one and O this week and we don't get too high , we don't get too low . For us , beating pit was just like beating Akron and I'm sure he did have some kind of backhanded intent in that comment , but it certainly was very illustrative of that philosophy that hey , it was just another game , it doesn't matter which team it was that we beat . It makes me laugh to this day still . But I actually don't think it was as out of character and out of as backhanded a slap as people made it to be , just knowing how he's continued to to chant that mantra .

Nate Prosser 25:45

He definitely had a good explanation for it , so we'll give him that and for you and the other pit haters out there , it gives you a good chuckle to look back on . Okay , so segment two around the one and O philosophy , micro goals taking your macro core values and bringing them down to what is the focus for the week or the month or whatever it would be . So find ways to look at that and find ways to pull that in . Andrew Zach , any thoughts on how you see that happen in the business world ?

Andrew Kennedy 26:18

I'll jump in here . So I'm in sales and every year we always have a sales kickoff meeting and they're always asking us to push more , push more . And invariably someone says what's your idea for selling more junk this year ? Someone raises their hands and goes we're gonna sell harder . It's like wait a minute , you mean to tell me you weren't selling hard last year ?

Andrew Kennedy 26:40

And I think that gets to his point of accurate , accurate , accurate , accurate , right . I like naming the team 75 times , or it's the one and O , because it points out that , yes , this game and this team is the most important thing right now and you need to give it your all . So , in terms of a sales and a business perspective , we're not gonna grow our sales at an organization by just selling harder . We need to focus on the year , develop a plan , work the plan , check and see how our work's doing and if we need to change it , then act on the change . But that's how I relate Franklin's narrative of Wisconsin , Wisconsin , Wisconsin to the business world is you need to focus on the current and work as hard as you can again the core value and achieve the goals . That way .

Nate Prosser 27:33

Yeah , there's a business analogy of that of like the 20 mile march , which I won't get into the whole thing , but it's essentially like if you have to walk across the country , you're better to walk 20 miles every single day than like go as far as you can one day and then be exhausted and like sleep the entire next day . So it's about that consistency of you know , in sales , every day I'm gonna aim to hit my daily target and I'm not gonna push to go above and beyond one week and then crash and crater the next week . But it's consistency . Do the same thing over and over again , and that's again what they try to do with the program is every week . It's be consistent . Have the game plan , execute the game plan for this team . Don't look above , beyond and outside of that .

Zac Phillips 28:15

I have a question for mostly Nate , but both of you guys , relative to this , because you know it's one thing to preach it and one thing that we have talked about , unfortunately , a couple of times throughout Franklin's career at Penn State , is how it doesn't actually seem like it always goes that way , particularly after losses , like we always talk about . Ohio State beats us twice because sometimes , coming off the Ohio State game , we lose and it seems like we're sort of deflated the next week .

Zac Phillips 28:45

So how do you kind of I think it's easy to preach one and O when everything's going right , or the business equivalent of one and O when everything's going right but how do you maybe bring your team back around ? Or , if you're an individual contributor , how do you bring yourself back around after what would be called maybe a loss in the work or business sense ?

Nate Prosser 29:09

The great thing about the business sense is you kind of get unlimited games right . You can lose two in a row and then go win 100 in a row One you wanna like . Give yourself grace . If you have a loss , don't try to ignore it . Work through it , it's all .

Nate Prosser 29:25

I always recommend talking to a coach , letting some of that negative energy out , and if you have a good coach , they can ask you the right questions and get underneath sort of what you're hanging onto and what you can let go of . What I think you also sometimes need to do and maybe this is something Franklin should consider is there is something to disrupting the routine too right . So what I have found is , if something doesn't go great with a teammate or with myself , it's really helpful to like go out to lunch or go to like a happy hour or get outside of the kind of normal setting and environment that I'm in , because that almost resets my brain . Or I find that like listening to a podcast or reading a book or going through some sort of slow meditation or something that I don't do as often as I wish I did that kind of rewires my brain into a new way of thinking that can help me kind of let go of the past and get excited for the future . So I don't know exactly what his conversations are like post the high state loss or the tough loss , or what he does if he tries to make it like right back same exact week or if there is an element of like , hey , we're gonna skip practice and we're gonna go to Tussie Mountain today or we're gonna do something like that , right . So I don't know if that's the right choice for a football team or a coach , but in a business setting I can say that it is sometimes really helpful and powerful to kind of remove yourself from the setting and get a broader perspective , and then that can help you to zoom back in .

Nate Prosser 30:58

All right , so I'm gonna shift us to segment three , and this is about intentionally creating an environment and not letting the environment happen to you . So what I mean by this is when you are the leader , when you are the leader of , if you work in retail , if you're the leader of your store , or you are the leader within your team or your department or your office or your branch or whatever it is , when you are the leader , as we kind of alluded to before , the culture and the behaviors that are accepted , sort of follow what you allow , what you reward and what you punish , right . So if you allow lateness , you're gonna have a culture of lateness . If you reward things like inclusivity and openness and feedback , those things are gonna happen in your culture , and especially when you do them , you publicly talk about them , and so if you're intentional about this , you can create a certain culture . If you never think about this , you're still creating a culture . You just don't know what it is .

Family Culture and Authentic Relationships

Nate Prosser 32:06

And so one thing that I think Franklin does a good job of , or seems to be very intentional about , is creating a certain type of culture within his team , within the building , within . What he talks about is a family . So I wanna play a clip actually from his introductory press conference that starts to set that tone a little bit around . Here's the culture that we're gonna have at Penn State under my leadership .

Clip of James Fanklin 32:33

I'd like to introduce my family my wife Fumi , who's here , and our daughter , shola and Addison , who really run the show . Shola and Addison are the bosses . That's really what it's gonna be about for us . This family Now have two daughters and 95 new sons . A lot of coaches say that , but we truly mean that .

Clip of James Fanklin 33:00

My daughters , their favorite thing in the world is the football boys and their uncles . My wife and daughters , will come to the football facility every day , whether it's to have lunch with us or whether it's to come at the end of the school day or work day . I think that's very , very important . We work long hours , work extremely hard , but we've created a great environment in our office . All the coaches , our wives and kids will come around . I think that's very , very important to what we're doing in terms of helping young men grow into successful leaders that are gonna have an impact on society one day . See how they interact . For them to see how we interact with our wives , for them to see how we interact with our kids is a big part of that . So that's very , very important to what we're trying to do . So at Penn State , I'll have two daughters and 95 sons , and every decision that we make in this program . We'll be based on that .

Nate Prosser 33:57

All right , andrew . So he paints a pretty compelling vision of the culture and the environment that he wants , that is , a family atmosphere , not just inclusive of his family and the coaches family , but the 95 sons of the players on the team and how he wants them to see interaction with their coaches families to see what he's going to model as the right type of behavior and sort of a family atmosphere . So can you talk a little bit about that , how you've seen that , what you've heard in terms of the family environment at Penn State ?

Andrew Kennedy 34:27

Yes , the big thing that sticks out of my mind is after practice and every Thursday they have a family dinner where any staff member coach , support staff , recruiting staff can bring their entire family in for dinner and they have it as a team . So players are interacting with kids . I've seen Franklin interact with other staff members children like they're his own , so he builds a very intentional family environment by having one giant team and family meal on a Thursday evening . The other aspect I've seen too is he , couple years ago , would have dinner two times a week with one player from the team . So he would go out to dinner individually with the teammate and a player and focus solely on them .

Nate Prosser 35:15

Very cool , definitely a family vibe . I wanna play another clip . This is an interview with Adam Breneman , a former player of his , where Franklin talks a little bit about his kind of authenticity and his approach to relationships and why that's so important .

Clip of James Fanklin 35:33

And to me it was always about the relationship first , the relationship with my teammates and the relationship with my coaches . So from that point on I just really felt like if we could start everything based on relationships and when you study kind of the most successful businesses and things like that , beaver Stadium is awesome 107,000 , our weight room that we just finished is phenomenal but at the end of the day , it's about the people in the stadium , it's about the people in the Lash building . So I just have always believed that if the players know how much I truly care about them and their futures and their families , then that's gonna allow me to be really demanding and challenging on them , because they know what's coming from a good place .

Nate Prosser 36:26

All right , good stuff there . So he talks about what I would summarize as people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care , right . So if you don't focus at all on relationships and getting to know people , they don't care what you know about business or they don't care about what you think you know about their career what's best for them ? Because they don't trust you . They don't feel that sort of authentic connection point .

Nate Prosser 36:53

So he talks about like I really lean into the relationship and he talks further around kind of how his upbringing is enabled him to feel comfortable in just about every environment , from rural to inner city , wherever it is . He's really comfortable going in to Hever's home and talking to the parents and getting to know them and striking up a relationship . So he has this really genuine authentic style that can connect to people and get people to buy in to what he's trying to do . So this idea of creating relationships , being authentic and using that to create the environment you want within your team or your company or your group let's talk a little bit about that from the business perspective . So , zach , andrew , anything that you try to do personally for your team or things that you've observed and others around you that kind of create a certain and very intentional environment and culture that you're around .

Zac Phillips 37:48

One thing I did personally last year which I'm not a big kind of go around talking to people type of guy I sit in my office a lot and just kind of focus on my work and one thing I did at the beginning of last year is that my wife got me one of those Nespresso coffee makers and I brought that into work and put it in my office and told people like hey , come in and get an espresso sometimes and let's just chat , and it's actually helped a little bit , like some people do come in and we just kind of sometimes you talk about work , sometimes we talk about something else , but it's just little things like that that have kind of helped me maybe get out of my comfort zone in terms of interacting with co-workers and trying to forge more meaningful relationships with them .

Andrew Kennedy 38:38

One way we've seen it professionally is our company has what we call Founders Day , so it's a chance for each local store to get together and celebrate not only with everyone that works in the store , but they can also bring their family . So this year we rented like a little pavilion at a local minor league baseball game and able to bring everyone together , and I think that kind of mirrors what the culture that Franklin's trying to grow up Penn State right is . You know , now that we're interacting on a personal level and interacting with each other's families , we all want to pull in one direction a little bit more . Right , it's not just hey , I'm gonna go in clock in at seven o'clock , out at four and get paid every other Friday . It's all right , we're a team , we're gonna work together , we have common goals , common interests and we're gonna make sure we want to achieve our goals .

Nate Prosser 39:26

Yeah , it's awesome . Thanks for sharing guys . So the call to action for the listeners is being intentional about the environment or the culture you want to create , and I would highly recommend you actually write this down right . Do you want to be approachable ? Do you want to make it feel like a family ? Do you want people to be comfortable offering you feedback and being inclusive and being psychologically safe ? That's a really important point in the research that people feel like they can fail and they can talk to you about those failures and not have to cover them up . So , taking the time to write those down right and it probably goes a little bit to your core values and kind of the environment that you want to create for the people that you work with . And then , what is your mechanism to get a sense of how well am I doing with that ? So , zach , if you don't mind me clicking into your story a little bit , I love that you're self-aware and open to say , hey , I'm kind of an introverted guy . My default is to go to my computer and be heads down and to kind of focus on my work and that's my comfort zone , but I also acknowledge that interacting with my teammates and with my group and having collaboration and getting to know each other a little bit is an important way for us to be a little bit more efficient and to probably support each other as we're working on similar stuff . So one of the ways that I want to enable that collaboration and kind of relationship building is through my espresso machine , because that is going to create a pathway for me to have personal conversations and connection points that otherwise I wouldn't feel overly comfortable , kind of going up and popping by someone's office or someone's cube to strike up a conversation , but kind of the them popping in and the espresso and and that sort of opens things up . So I'm intentional first I'm self-aware , then I'm intentional , then I create actions that lead to what I'm looking for . Everyone can do that . Everyone can have a level of self-awareness of where they are and they can have an intention of where they want to go , which in your case is to get a little bit out of your comfort zone and to have more relationship-minded conversations . And this is my strategy and mechanism to do that . Alright , good stuff .

Nate Prosser 41:41

So let's now pivot to segment number four , and this is customer focus . What I want to do is go from what I , what I heard in that last clip is Franklin talking a little bit about like hey , this , the stadium doesn't matter unless the people inside of the stadium care . Right , a hundred and seven thousand people is awesome , but if none of them actually care about the team and are truly invested in cheering for the team and supporting the team , doesn't matter that we have those people . What I'd like to talk to for a minute here is what ways is Franklin customer focused ? In other words , how is he focused on not just his team , but he's also focused on the fans , the community , the brand of Penn State . It seems to me that he's being intentional about some of those things . Andrew , can I , can I start with you ? Can you share a little bit about how he is customer focus and is connecting with the community in that way ?

Andrew Kennedy 42:45

Yeah , you know so . So even this year they added an open practice where fans can come in on a Saturday and they can view how an actual Penn State team practices during the week . This is something in the past that Franklin's been very secretive of . No one can see practice , no one can go in . But he realizes the fans want more . They want to see more , so he decided to open practice for him . He's also providing more media availability than any coach before him . You know he's got three press conferences a week where he's giving information on his team and his players and me as a fan . I love that . I'm watching every second of every James Franklin press conference . I'm up on Saturday night at 11 o'clock watching 45 minutes because I want to hear about how the holder messed up the extra point right . So I love that stuff and it gets me going . So he's really focused on making sure the fan experience is , you know , up to par with every team in the country .

Nate Prosser 43:44

Zach , anything to add to that ?

Zac Phillips 43:47

I think one of the big examples that I always remember is actually from his introductory press conference with you , which played a few clips from that , but I remember one of the things he said was you know , we're gonna be out there in the community if people want us to come to their kids birthday party and blow up balloons in the backyard .

Zac Phillips 44:06

We're gonna be there and I think that was kind of an indication that he didn't really understand the differences between Penn State and Vanderbilt where he'd come from . Maybe I know they got a lot more requests to actually do that than he was expecting , but just stuff like that . I mean , I do think he provides an environment that makes us feel us as fans feel a little bit more like part of the program than maybe some other fans of other programs would be . You know , even go back to some of that stuff I talked about before , about the fun stuff he does with Keegan-Michael Key and Eli Manning , just stuff like that kind of making it fun not just for the players but for all of us .

Andrew Kennedy 44:51

And I think he sees the value of the brand . I think Nate talked a little bit ago , but you know he's not solely focused on football . 365 days a year I've seen him supporting the basketball team , supporting the women's volleyball team , the wrestling team , so he understands the bigger the Penn State brand can get , it's better for the fans , better for him , better for the team . So he sees that . You know , 50,000 foot view of Penn State athletics .

Zac Phillips 45:19

Rising tide lifts all boats and that could be something that should be trying to help other teams in your organization do their best , because hopefully that'll make the organization as a whole better .

Nate Prosser 45:32

Yes , sir .

Leadership Lessons

Nate Prosser 45:33

So the point I want to make here for the leaders listening is customer focus is super important and as a leader you have kind of this dual responsibility that always has attention against itself , right ? So , just like Franklin needs to be focused on his team , but then also focused on the community of fans and the other stuff and kind of zoom out . As a leader your work usually tends to be either more employee focused or customer focused , and you need to make sure that you don't lose sight of both , right ? So if you're kind of insulated and you have heavy interaction with the team but you don't touch the end customer a lot , you have to find ways to be in touch with that end customer , understand their needs , understand how you can indirectly serve them . And if you're the opposite , if you're like a hundred percent frontline customer facing , it's easy to lose sight of sort of the support team and the others that are around you that are really important to make the whole machine go . So don't be afraid to find ways to get more in touch with the employees and kind of their needs and how they're feeling and how the environment around them either motivates them or does not . So this yin and yang between being associate focused and customer focused . Again , making the parallel to a football coach of having to do both , where you're really focused on your team , the 95 sons he has , but also Andrew listening to his press conference at 11 o'clock at night is really important for the program and understanding that he needs to have that connection point into the fans as well .

Nate Prosser 47:09

Alright , so we are now going to shift to our fifth and final segment before we do some fun stuff to wrap up , but our fifth leadership lesson , and we're gonna frame this as resilience and bouncing back . So Zach asked a question a little bit about this before . I think we gave , you know , pretty glowing review of some of the stuff that Franklin does and I think it's all deserve it and warranted . And again , I think if you can replicate some of these things that he's doing within the football program , within your team , you're gonna help to motivate them , you're gonna help to connect with them and build relationships with them . That's all gonna be really positive . But even when you do those things , sometimes things don't always work out . You don't always hit the sales that you want , you don't hit your KPIs or you don't , or you don't win the big games that you want to win Zach . You kind of alluded to this in the opening , but can you summarize for us a little bit on how Penn State has done against Ohio State in Michigan over the course of his career ?

Zac Phillips 48:07

yeah , the way that our conference , the big ten , is set up , it's in two divisions and Penn State's in the east , along with Ohio State and Michigan , who are really two college football juggernauts right now , and so we play them every year and , rightly or wrongly , those games become a measuring stick for the program and obviously for Franklin as a coach .

Zac Phillips 48:30

All together were five and fifteen against those two teams , so five wins against 15 losses . Only one of those wins is against Ohio State and a few of the Michigan wins were a few years ago , prior to Jim Harbaugh , who's our current coach , coming in

Leadership and Expectations for Elite Programs

Zac Phillips 48:46

. So one of the things that has has followed Franklin throughout his career is kind of this criticism that he , he can't win the big game and I think a lot of the bull wins that we've seen in some of the other wins against other big teams kind of put that a bit to rest . But the fact of the matter is still that our two measuring stick games we have typically not done well in , at least not well in in terms of actually winning the game cool .

Nate Prosser 49:15

So there was a tough loss in 2018 . I'm gonna play a clip from Franklin's postgame press conference from that a game against Ohio State , before I do . Andrew , for the listeners , can you summarize kind of how that game went and why that was a tough loss ?

Andrew Kennedy 49:34

yeah , I will say it was way tougher than I remember five years ago . I know we were all at the stands for that one , but going back through the play-by-play was some torture . So real quick , I'll get through it . We Penn State , jumped out to a 13-0 lead but we had chances to blow that open in the first half . Let me just read you how a few drives ended for us in the first half . One we punted from the Ohio State 39 . Then we settled for a field goal on the Ohio State 16 . Then we missed a field goal deep in Ohio State territory . After a turnover we settled for another field goal on the Ohio State 21 . And then , right before half , up 13-0 and we fumbled and allowed Ohio State to go score touchdown . So we went into the half up 13-7 . But honestly it could have been 20 to nothing , 23 , nothing . Ohio State comes out , the second half scores the touchdown to take the lead . Penn State battled back , takes a 12-point lead with eight minutes to go and that's when it all went downhill , you know .

Andrew Kennedy 50:48

So Ohio State scores two quick touchdowns to go up 27 26 we get the ball final drive . We get to over midfield , fourth and five , and then we have the fateful handoff on the zone read to Miles Sanders to get stopped for a two-yard loss . Game over Penn State loses by one , and then that leads us right into his press conference after the game .

Zac Phillips 51:12

Nate . Before you play this clip , I want to point out as brutal as all that was . Part of the reason it seems even more brutal is because the year prior , in 2017 , we lost the game in a pretty similar way .

Andrew Kennedy 51:26

We were up , it was worth it , I'll never forget it not to cut you off and go to 10 , but we were out we were up 15 in the fourth quarter with the ball on there 43 and lost you can cut this part .

Zac Phillips 51:40

You can cut this part out if you have to . But I mean I we were watching at a bar and I remember getting in the Uber after that and just telling the Uber driver like I don't want to talk , just drive me home , okay all right , the fandom is coming out .

Nate Prosser 51:52

I love it , so let's let's play the clip from Franklin after again , this is two years in a row of Penn State being up big , having a chance to really put the game away , and then losing in the final minutes first of all want to thank the fans for coming out .

Clip of James Fanklin 52:11

Unbelievable environment , record crowd . Couldn't ask for better support from a community and from you know this one hurts . Obviously . You know we didn't finish the game the way we should have finished the game . The reality is we've gone from an average football team to a good football team , to a great football team , and we've worked really hard to do those things . But we're not an elite football team yet . And as hard as we have worked to go from average to good , from good to great , the work that it's going to take to get to an elite program is gonna be just as hard .

Clip of James Fanklin 52:58

And right now we're comfortable . We're comfortable being great and I'm gonna make sure that everybody in our program , including myself , is very uncomfortable , because you only grow in life when you're uncomfortable . So we are going to break through and become an elite program by doing all the little things and we are going to find a way to get from being a great program , which we are just . So everybody's crystal clear we're a great program . We lost to an elite program and we're that close . We have gotten comfortable being great . We will no longer be comfortable being great . We're gonna learn from this . We're gonna grow from this and we're gonna find a way to take that next step as a program , because we've been knocking at the door long enough and it's my job as the head coach . I'm ultimately responsible for all of it and I will find a way . We will find a way and with all the support ever , ever everybody in this community and everybody on this campus and the Letterman and everybody else , we are going to get this done . I give you my word .

Nate Prosser 54:11

All right , guys . So I remember this press conference after and this Barometer stick that he draws right that we are great program . Make no mistake about it . We're a great program that we lost to an elite program and we are not an elite program . But he goes on to say we are going to become an elite program . And you have my word . I can say my Membrance of how I felt about that from a leadership perspective back then versus how I feel about it now , relistening to it , is different . But before I give my opinion , I'd love to hear from you guys how did you feel about this in terms of his leadership and the message that he put out , not just to the fans in the community but to his own players ?

Andrew Kennedy 55:00

Honestly , I'm a little mixed on it . I Think he ran the risk of alienating his players in the locker room , right ? Like how , if we're not elite and we're just great , what are you saying about the players you have in that locker room , right ? Are you , by motivating them , are you kind of putting them down to say , hey , you aren't up to the level of where we want to be ? And Then you know , in the nature of colleges , some players leave and some players come and go . Are you gonna replace them ? And that's where I've always felt mixed , especially from a leadership standpoint . From a fan , I was like pump it into my veins , ready to go , we're gonna go kick some butt . But when you take a step back at it from a leadership standpoint , I think that's a very tough thing to do , to provide that constructive criticism for your teammates without putting them down .

Comparing Leadership Styles: Paterno and Franklin

Zac Phillips 55:53

Zach I agree with feeling mixed about it and I Kind of choose to focus on the end part of it where he , he gives his word me , he promises and maybe that's me being more of a fan Definitely see Andrews point About how that could potentially alienate the team . But I also see how potentially it could Tie back into the core values and saying guys , we've done all this sacrifice , we've put in this , this work , we've competed , but we need to keep doing that and we need to do that more to get to this next level . So Whether it was the correct speech or not to give , I honestly don't know . I can see both , both sides to it for sure , but I think I tend to come down on the mix side but a little more positive on it than maybe Andrew was .

Nate Prosser 56:50

Appreciate the perspective for sure . I Remembered being like really disappointed about it , and when I listened back through it , I was more positive about it , and one of the reasons I was more positive than I remembered not to say it was perfect and I think the risk that Andrew calls out is well-founded the reason I was more positive about it is because he took more self-accountability than I remembered . I I I remembered it as More blame and less self-accountability and less of you have my word that we're gonna get this done . What I like about it is Something that I often preach with my team is I'll say the words . We have outregiously high expectations on this team and what I have found is that high performers like really high expectations and low performers don't . And I'm okay with scaring away low performers Because I want to attract high performers and I want to attract folks that when I say we want to have outrageously high expectations and we want to be the best leadership and development Organization in the industry , when I say things like that , that is really motivating for some people and scary for others , and I'm okay in that discomfort . Now Everyone has to find their own language and find the right word and again he has a better pulse on his team . What I would say is important if this is an emotional reaction and he hadn't thought through what Andrew described , then there is a big risk there . Right , he is Emotionally blowing off steam . He is emotionally saying something that might be good for the fans but alienate his own team . If he was more conscious of that and had the time to process that and thought through the risk and return of , hey , I'm comfortable setting a new , higher , exceptional bar for my team and I know that that might alienate some of them , but I'm okay with that because of this reason , then I think that's a really good choice .

Nate Prosser 58:57

So what I would say is , when you have these moments of Needing resilience and needing to bounce back and you are the leader that everyone is looking to to say this sucks , this fell apart . We worked really hard and we didn't get what we want . What you want to think about is what is the objective and what is the outcome I seek to achieve with the words that I'm about to embark on these folks ? And If that's a kick in the pants , sometimes that's great . If that is the love and coddling that needs to happen , sometimes that's great too . But you need to think about what is my team need and what is the type of language Just gonna resonate and help them to bounce back and also motivate them to give extra . So a lot packed into there .

Nate Prosser 59:43

I think the Andrews kickoff to it was perfect to say , hey , this is mixed right . It's kind of hard to know the surrounding piece . Here is the risk and here is the possible positive to that . The point is that you need to know your team and know what's gonna hit for them . Any thoughts on that , guys , or anything else you wanted to add ? Not , I think you summed it up perfectly . All right , cool . So bonus segment we're gonna do since Zack spent like two hours with me on the the Joe pod , we're gonna do a little bit of comparison . So let's talk a little bit about comparisons between Joe Paterno's leadership style and James Franklans and again , action is not Jackson's . We're not saying one is good , one is bad , or this , that or the other . What we're saying is what are some of the differences and similarities and their leadership style ? So what do you got for me , guys ?

Zac Phillips 1:00:34

I Would say from a similarity standpoint Andrew you correct me if you disagree but but definitely one thing that seems like a core value to those guys personally as loyalty maybe loyalty to a fall , but it seems like they both very much Trusted guys that had been with them for a long time , be that members of the coaching staff , be that players who you know might not necessarily have been the most talented guys at their particular positions , but the coaches trusted them and probably some level of that trust fell down to loyalty and maybe blind loyalty . That's one of the things that definitely stands out to me in terms of similarities .

Andrew Kennedy 1:01:24

Yeah , I was going through some research , just studying both of them , and they're almost carbon copies of each other , so I was writing down some quotes . I love writing down quotes of famous people . I thought we could actually play a game and see if we could . I'll read off some quotes and you try and guess which coach said the quote , because I mean , the way these two mirror each other is remarkable . So , first one , you must create a collective culture mentality . We need to create a culture in which everyone is singing the same song , franklin or Paterno .

Nate Prosser 1:02:05

I say Paterno . I say Paterno too .

Andrew Kennedy 1:02:09

Both wrong . That is a James Franklin quote . Thanks for playing All right next one , all right . Today , you've got a decision to make You're going to get better or you're going to get worse , but you're not going to stay the same . So which will it be ?

Nate Prosser 1:02:25

That's definitely .

Andrew Kennedy 1:02:26

Paterno yeah yeah , that's my favorite quote . I live by that one a lot of days , I think it . There's some days you want to coast , whether you're tired , you're not feeling well and it's like , okay , this is my day , I'm going to get better because I do not want to get worse . I love that quote , awesome , all right . Third one the will to win is important , but the will to prepare is vital .

Nate Prosser 1:02:54

That's Joe , I'm going Franklin .

Andrew Kennedy 1:02:58

Oh , zach , with the win . That's a Paterno quote . All right , one more . We're going to build it the right way and we're going to build it for the long haul .

Nate Prosser 1:03:11

I'm going Franklin again .

Zac Phillips 1:03:14

Me too .

Andrew Kennedy 1:03:15

All right both right , that's a Franklin .

Nate Prosser 1:03:17

All right .

Andrew Kennedy 1:03:18

I think the core takeaway from that is they are just so built into the culture and kind of doing some prep for this podcast . You never thought you'd look to a football coach as a leader , right . But when you sit back and you think about it , especially in today's day and age , these guys are running companies . You know Penn State football has got a $80 million budget , right . So it's not just you know 85 kids out there running around in magic shirts . You know he's running a small company and he has to set the culture for this team and he's doing an impeccable job in my opinion .

Zac Phillips 1:03:55

Well , to that point , you hear a lot these days the phrase CEO coach and that really at least the way I interpreted it is it refers to a coach who does run it like an organization , where he delegates authority to his assistant coaches and people up and down the organization and really maybe thinks about it more in a business and analytic sense than just a gut feel sense , how it might used to have been done .

Nate Prosser 1:04:30

I love it . So I'm going to wrap on this part and then we'll move on to kind of the closing . You are the CEO of the company in more people's eyes than you realize . Right Again , when you are a leader , if you are leading a store or leading a department , in a lot of ways people are looking to you , and the actions and the environment and the culture that you create in that micro environment is the cues people are taking , and so take that responsibility not as a burden but as an opportunity to really positively impact and influence others . You know my tagline of the world needs more leaders .

Nate Prosser 1:05:10

Things are tough . People go home at night and their experience of how their work day was is a lot reflective on the environment that you create around them , and so do that with intention . Don't let that happen around you and let the time pass you by All right . So what I want to do to close out is we're going to do an episode challenge . We're then going to do a little bit of fun Penn State predictions and close . So if you're not a Penn State super fan , you should still listen all the way to the end . But if you want to drop off after the episode challenge . I can respect that . All right , guys . What do you got for the listeners ? What is one action that anyone listening can take over the next week that will make them a better leader ?

Zac Phillips 1:05:57

So you mentioned before that you liked my kind of coffee idea , so maybe I'll just take that and run with it . Maybe doesn't necessarily have to be coffee , it could be a beer after work , it could be a soda , it could be anything . But maybe , you know , I don't want to give something cheesy like go out and meet someone new in your organization , but maybe take some time and a few minutes to sit down and have a conversation that isn't necessarily about something that you need right away or that is going on at work right in the minute , but more of a broader conversation with someone you interact with and are coworkers with . And the more you do that , the more comfortable you'll get doing it .

Episode Challenge: The Importance of Checking In

Nate Prosser 1:06:42

One of my favorite things about Servant Leadership , Zach , is when someone checks in with someone without wanting anything in return . Think about all the people that reach out to you only when they want something . But what about the people that just send a text , just checking in ? How are you doing ? That is , to me , one of the core elements of Servant Leadership . So to kind of piggyback on what you said go out , talk to someone , not that you need something , not that you need them to run a report for you or to collaborate with you on a project , but just to either get to know them or to check in or to offer your assistance to them . So I think that is an awesome challenge that everyone can take . Andrew , you can pass if you want , but if you have one , jump in there .

Andrew Kennedy 1:07:27

I'm going to say Zach , so am I . I was going to go with the same thing , so you know , ditto , zach , do it twice .

Nate Prosser 1:07:35

All right , meet two people , so I'll give you a bonus , one extra credit , which would be what I talked about earlier around writing down the culture and environment that you want to create , like five things that you would want someone to say about hey , working for this person is like . And then write down those five adjectives or descriptors and then ask a couple people some feedback of how close you are to that thing , and that might lead you to a couple actions like setting up an espresso machine or texting people once a month just to check in that you don't normally do . Whatever those kind of core actions that you can take to align to those five environmental behaviors that you want to create , the more intentional you're going to be about your culture , right , and we kicked off the podcast with that around the core values that Franklin laid out , his four core values that permeate everything that they do . What is the version of that for your team that can permeate everything that you do ? All right , so I hope you got some great nuggets from our segments .

Nate Prosser 1:08:43

I think Franklin is doing an awesome job from a leadership perspective . Again , no one's perfect , but there's a lot of really positive actions that he's taking that we can learn from and try to implement in our day to day . Now we're going to pivot to some fun . We're going to talk some Penn State football . Before I ask the guys for some predictions , I led off by calling Andrew the tailgate king . Andrew , can you talk a little bit about some of the meals that you have prepared at Beaver Stadium ? I've got to enjoy many of them .

Andrew Kennedy 1:09:12

Well , my favorite meal to cook is breakfast . I love getting up making a big breakfast . Getting everyone going for the day get you some energy to tailgate and play all the games that we play . So I get the blackstone out , I'm making eggs , I'm making burritos , bacon , hash browns , so I really like to kick things off with a big breakfast . And then I don't want to forget the world famous chocolate stuffed French toast .

Nate Prosser 1:09:38

Yeah , this guy makes chocolate stuffed French toast outside of a stadium , and we're notorious for getting to the stadium even for 8 pm games , at least a half hour before the lots even open , which is sometimes at 8 am .

Nate Prosser 1:09:53

So yeah tailgate to tailgate . You got to tailgate the tailgate , yeah , and as soon as they let us in , my man's whipping out grills and tents and everything else . So it's a great time and a well-deserved nickname for sure . I'm excited to share with you guys , our wives , a few other of our best friends

College Football Expectations

Nate Prosser 1:10:13

. We're going up for game one Labor Day weekend . It's coming up quickly . We got Penn State , wvu , penn State , three touchdown-ish favorites . They're going to be favorites in a lot of games . They're going to have tough games at home against Michigan and away at Ohio State . Predictions record-wise . Zach , you are on the clock . What do you got for this year ?

Zac Phillips 1:10:38

So I feel like you asked me a similar question when I was on the Joe Puff podcast and I think I kind of waffled and said Ohio State , Michigan , tough games . I don't know if I actually gave you a record , but I think the way that I was talking was leaning towards 10 and 2 . 12 and 0 , baby .

Andrew Kennedy 1:10:58

We're doing it . Yeah , it's going to be my vein .

Zac Phillips 1:11:03

Yeah , I think in all seriousness , I do think it sets up well for us . Ohio State may be a little more vulnerable than they have been , particularly at quarterback , and we get them on the road , and Michigan is certainly looking stronger . But we seem to always play them tough at home and I know you guys aren't planning on going to that game , but I'm excited to go to that game with you when you finally decide that you're going to be making the trip . So I think a realistic prediction is probably 11 and 1 as an upside case , but 12 and 0 , baby .

Nate Prosser 1:11:40

I love it , andrew , what do you got ?

Andrew Kennedy 1:11:43

I got 11 and 1 . Okay , lou's Ohio State beat Michigan .

Nate Prosser 1:11:47

Beat Michigan . Okay , does that get them into the playoffs ? Zach , obviously yes , with 12 and 0 . Does 11 and 1 get them in ?

Andrew Kennedy 1:11:55

Yeah , I think they sneak in as the fourth seed , so this team's got athletes up and down the roster . It all comes down to the quarterback . So is he a dude ? That's the question .

Nate Prosser 1:12:08

All right , give me a couple of names , maybe a little bit Hold on because .

Zac Phillips 1:12:14

I didn't hear a prediction from you .

Nate Prosser 1:12:19

Appreciate being put on the spot and not letting me get away with host duties . I am buying in more and more . I have been studying the roster , which I've never really done before . I think the Penn State love is wearing off on you guys and on to me more and more all the time . So I am also at 11 and 1 , and I also have them sneaking in , similar to Andrew , I think this is the year . It is time . Love it All right .

Nate Prosser 1:12:51

I got a couple more questions for you . We've been texting about this a little bit . Give the listeners a couple of under the radar names to look out for , so folks that maybe they don't know from last year , right , nick Singleton , aller , some of the big names , but a few names that they will know by the end of the season .

Andrew Kennedy 1:13:13

I'll give you one each side of the ball . On defense , it's going to be safety . Kevin Winston , he's an athletic guy . You read some of the message boards . He can stuff the run , he can play the pass . I think he's going to take more and more time at safety . And then on offense , you saw him a little bit last year but I'm going to go with Tyler Warren , tight end number 44 . I think we're going to play two tight end sets more until the receivers kind of separate themselves . So I think he's going to be a bigger part of the offense this year .

Nate Prosser 1:13:42

Great answer . What do you got , Zach ?

Zac Phillips 1:13:45

I guess I'll do two sides of the ball as well . So defense then . I didn't sudden defensive end been getting beastly reports out of training camp . So we have a loaded defensive end room of Chalk Robinson , deesa , isaac , and it's going to be great when we can bring in a fresh DDS and hopefully turn him loose on some unsuspecting quarterbacks . As far as the offensive side of the ball , I don't know if Keondre Lambert Smith would necessarily count as a sleeper , but I'm optimistic that he's a guy that's going to take the next step . Had a big , big game in the Rose Bowl , cut along touchdown inconsistencies kind of been one of his trademarks and really there's not a lot of question marks on the team , but wide receiver is certainly one of them . So him taking a step would be a huge benefit .

Nate Prosser 1:14:42

Another great answer . All right , last question for you guys . Give me a Drew Aller prediction . You could give me number of touchdowns , number of yards . Tell me a little bit what we can expect from number 15 , who , as Andrew said , a lot of the hopes this year rest on his big shoulders .

Andrew Kennedy 1:15:02

I'm going to go . 35 touchdowns oh , two hours here . I think . I think he's had a big arm . They're going to go deep . They got some speed at receivers . I think he's going to put up some big touchdown numbers this year . It's a big number . What do you got Zach ?

Zac Phillips 1:15:18

I don't know that I have a stat . Necessarily I would say that I hope Andrew's way high and the reason I hope he's way high is because if he is high then that means our running games been able to shoulder a lot of the road load and I think that is kind of going to be a key for hopefully letting the Mies into it a little bit . If he puts up 35 touchdowns I'm sure I'm going to be happy , but hopefully we'll be happy even if he puts up quite a bit less .

Nate Prosser 1:15:49

All

Penn State Predictions With Zach and Andrew

Nate Prosser 1:15:50

right . Well , zach , andrew , thanks so much for coming on Leadership Chalk Talk . This was a ton of fun . Thanks to the listeners . For those of you that made it this far and listened through our Penn State predictions Couldn't help ourselves . We're super excited . As I always say , the world needs more leaders . You can keep listening , you can put these practices into place , you can become one . You can help the people around you . Again , guys , thanks for joining .

Andrew Kennedy 1:16:16

Thanks for having us . Thanks for having us . We are Penn .

Zac Phillips 1:16:21

State .